Converting to Catholicism
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2. Uphold the dignity of the other people in the forum
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Topic
Converting to Catholicism
Questions to Consider
Why do you think many intellectuals have converted to the Catholic faith? (Peter Kreeft, Scott Hahn, and historically John Henry Newman)
What is the main reason people convert to Catholicism?
Are there historical facts that most people overlook on this topic?
Where does Scripture play into the story of most converts?
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2. Uphold the dignity of the other people in the forum
3. Cite your sources
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http://www.OneBillionStories.com/ OneBillionStories.com
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http://www.OneBillionStories.com/ OneBillionStories.com
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http://www.OneBillionStories.com/ OneBillionStories.com
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Wesley Falcao
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Nataleigh
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Nataleigh
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Joe
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J4700
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Joe
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http://semperjase.com Jason
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Joe
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gerard
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Joe
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Joe
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J4700
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J4700
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Joe
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Green
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Green
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Green
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Joe
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Joe
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Nataleigh
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Joe
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J4700
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J4700
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J4700
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Joe
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Joe
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http://twitter.com/1BillionStories Seth J. DeMoor
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http://twitter.com/1BillionStories Seth J. DeMoor
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http://twitter.com/1BillionStories Seth J. DeMoor
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http://twitter.com/1BillionStories Seth J. DeMoor
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http://twitter.com/1BillionStories Seth J. DeMoor
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http://twitter.com/1BillionStories Seth J. DeMoor
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http://twitter.com/1BillionStories Seth J. DeMoor
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http://twitter.com/DouayRheims Pray The Rosary
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Joe
Interesting idea.
How do you figure in this?
Our team has encountered many conversion stories on this website that relate to the issue of authority. You would not think that authority is a likable quality in the 21st century, but that has not been the experience to date in many conversion stories on this website.
Non-Catholics visiting this forum, what is your opinion on authority within Christianity?Our evidence is found at this post here [video]: http://onebillionstories.com/2580/rome-sweet-home-2/
They convert because they actually understand the teachings of the Catholic Church and appreciate the beauty of the Catholic faith.
It is the only institution that claim definitely to posses and proclaim the Truth. Revelation cannot be secured without authority, and the authority of the Church has progressed, but remains unwavering. Theses are reasons given by Newman himself. The Church has never changed her teaching, but she expands… there are developments, and responses to heresy, but never contradictions. Her claim is certainly bold, but there is something significant to be said for the fact that she remains today with the same teaching and tradition. It seems like we have to follow Newman’s example however, and be led first and foremost by our relationship with Christ, because it is our human experience and nature to seek that which we are made for. God is Truth. When we know Him, we know ourselves, and the Truth will be fully revealed in it’s fullness in the Catholic Church. Our experience and personal revelation are secured by the authority of the Church, and affirmed by Scripture. When we look at scripture in context it affirms the teaching of the Church… but sola scriptura cannot be sufficient on it’s own. We need help reveal the mystery of scripture too, and that is complimented and found in good leaders, that proclaim the gospel. If God is with us, who can be against us? He leads us home with love.
I recently finished a class on Newman at the University of St Thomas with Dr. Don Briel, nearly all of these ideas are Newman’s, not mine… He discusses these ideas most in “An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine”, also “Grammar of Ascent”, and his own conversion story and process is told in “Apologia Pro Vita Sua”
People might convert to catholism for many reasons, underlining them all is a fundamental lack of understanding of the Gospel, where in Christ took on flesh and lived a perfect sinless life that we could not, He went to the cross and died taking the punishment we deserve, after 3 days He arose from the grave defeating death, this alone is our only Hope, all according to the Scriptures. If a person believes they must do anything at all in the slightest in cooperation with Jesus to attain salvation they are in direct violation of Scripture, Ephesians 2:8-9 for starters.
Jesus + nothing = everything.
So Joe, is EVERYONE saved?
Certainly not.
Joe, your response implies that all the intellectuals cited are not smart enough to understand that “faith alone” saves. But of course, these people (and I would also add others to the list like G.K. Chesterton, Robert Bork, Avery Dulles) do not lack the intellectual capacity to understand the Protestant view of faith alone, they just disagree with it.
That brings back the original question, or put another way, why do these intellectual Catholic converts reject the easy salvation of faith alone?
As I originally stated there are any number of reasons a person weather they claim to be protestant, pagan or whatever converts to catholism, underlining them all is a fundemental lack of understanding of the Gospel. An “intelectual understanding” of the Biblical view of the Gospel does not equate to a heart transformed by the Holy Spirit. Only if the Father grants it does a person move from knowing in their head to believing in their heart.
Many reject Catholicism out of deep seated bigotry and hatred taught to him as a child. Much like many who are racist were taught that hatred. No matter how much he sees the truth in it, he has been taught at a very early age to hate the Church. Really hard to have a conversation with someone who says an orange is an apple.
So how does Joe deal with the fact that the Catholic Church gave him the Bible?
The catholic church did not give us Bible, God did through the Old Testament Prophets and the Apostles.
I’d appreciate it if you did not refer to me as a racist or a religious bigot. I love all people, catholics included.
So Joe, What does one need to DO in order to be saved?
So Joe, How can you or anyone know which books make up the Bible?
Nothing. Even the very Faith a saved person places in Christ, that His death on the cross alone is sufficient to forgive all their sins past present and future, and will one day be raised with Him, is given to them as a gift by God.
Ephesians 2:8-9 CPDV
For by grace, you have been saved through faith. And this is not of yourselves, for it is a gift of God. And this is not of works, so that no one may glory…
What must a man do to inherit eternal life?
Do you have to keep the commandments to get to heaven?
I would say Protestants who know history cease to be Protestant and become Catholic.
No.
Galatians 2:16 CPDV
And we know that man is not justified by the works of the law, but only by the faith of Jesus Christ. And so we believe in Christ Jesus, in order that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law. For no flesh will be justified by the works of the law.
While I would be happy to answer that, the canonisity and historisty of the Scriptures are favorite subjects of mine (although admitedly I’m no expert), I feel like we’re its getting a little off topic.
How can we cooperate with God’s saving grace without understanding and following the law? The works of the law, and it’s letter cannot stand alone, but when we fully enter into a relationship with Christ it seems necessary to intimately know the spirit of the law, and be willing to follow God’s precepts so that we can be saved. Faith should always lead to action. It seems to me that following God’s commands are a significant aspect of that action.Our love of God fills us with a fear, not simply of hell, but a fear that leads us to not want to offend Him by our transgressions.
“My grace is sufficient for you, for only in weakness is my power made perfect.” 2 Cor 11:30
To know what it is to be human is to recognize sin, and turn to God as our savior, repent, and let Him lead us closer to Himself, but how can we live our faith and respond without His guidance… spelled out beautifully in the 10 commandments and reworded later in the 2 great commandments… The faithful need to be obedient, as Christ was to the Father.
I think the intellectuals saw how satisfying the Catholic approach was, especially when they examined the sacraments and their scriptural foundations, and unwavering consistency from the days of the early Church.
So what your saying is you disagree with the Scriptures when they clearly teach believers are NOT justified by works of the law but only by Faith in Jesus Christ.
Note I am not saying they Christians can just go out and drink in sin like water, that is not the case at all.
Romans 6:1-2 CPDV
So what shall we say? Should we remain in sin, so that grace may abound? Let it not be so! For how can we who have died to sin still live in sin?
Joe, It would seem that you know very little of scripture and acually contradict and twist scripture to your own liking. What scripture CLEARLY teaches is that we are justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE. In FACT the scriptures calls one foolish, shallow or an ignoramous if he believes we are justified by faith ALONE. James 2:14-26
(14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?…So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith…. Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? …You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works,…You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone….26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.
Humor me Joe, who had the AUTHORITY to compile the canon of scripture?
Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.
Have you kept the law perfectly from the moment you were born until now?
The James passages are not adding a requirement in addition to faith, James is describing what true genuine saving faith looks like in a person’s life.
Your use of them here to wrongly justify a requirement of works in addition to faith shows that you do not understand how the scriptures teach a person is saved.
We are saved by Christ alone, His death for the forgiveness of sins and resurrection is accounted to those whom He saves by faith. This faith that saves is a gift not of works so that none may boast. When this faith comes upon a person they are changed from the inside out.
2 Corinthians 5:17 CPDV
So if anyone is a new creature in Christ, what is old has passed away. Behold, all things have been made new.
Before moving forward on this topic, perhaps the whole and valid story of Sacred Scripture should be discussed. Our team is going to start a new discussion topic, link is below.
Here is the next topic on the Bible: http://onebillionstories.com/8912/where-did-the-bible-come-from/
Next topic on Bible: http://onebillionstories.com/8912/where-did-the-bible-come-from/
Next topic on the Bible: http://onebillionstories.com/8912/where-did-the-bible-come-from/
Next topic on the Bible: http://onebillionstories.com/8912/where-did-the-bible-come-from/
Next topic on the Bible: http://onebillionstories.com/8912/where-did-the-bible-come-from/
Next topic on the Bible: http://onebillionstories.com/8912/where-did-the-bible-come-from/
Even St Paul would agree that OSAS is wrong. “But I keep under my
body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have
preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. ” (1 Corinthians
9:27, KJV) Now if anyone, at all, ever, was ‘saved’ as you would
interpret that word, it was St Paul. Yet here he is, a long while after
being ‘saved’, STILL worrying about being disqualified, a ‘castaway’.
Elsewhere Paul talks about working out one’s salvation “with fear and
trembling” Philippians 2:12, and says “Let him that thinketh he standeth
take heed lest he fall.” (1 Corinthians 10:12) None of this is remotely
compatible with OSAS.
The question is what is the will of His Father?
Lets keep reading:
Matthew 7:22 Many
will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and
cast out demons in your name, and perform many powerful deeds in your name? 23 And then will I disclose to them: I
have never known you. Depart from me, you workers of iniquity.
Christ is saying here that those who are trusting in the works they do in His name are NOT doing the will of His Father, this is clear because His response to them is “I HAVE NEVER KNOWN YOU. DEPART FROM ME, YOU WORKER OF INIQUITY”.
If you are trusting in your works in any way, in cooperation with, or made effectual by Christ, this is what He will say to you.
If however, the Father grants that we believe and gives us the Faith to trust in Christ ALONE to save us, Paul tells us this: Romans 8:38 For I am certain that neither death, nor life, nor Angels, nor Principalities, nor Powers, nor the present things, nor the future things, nor strength,39 nor the heights, nor the depths, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.